1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

achandler
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:45 pm

1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by achandler » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:34 am

I dont know whether anyone else has noticed this, but if you want to see a drop-dead gorgeous Tickford coupe for sale, go to ebay.com and feed in list number 181075029938. Apart from the fact that it has had $350,000 spent on restoration, it has some RSR "names" that immediatly caught my attention.
Its first owner was listed as "Stenning", (any relation to Richard, I wonder?) and then it passed to a "Kent". The car has only got another 3+ days to go till the auction ends, and the price stands at $58,000, at the moment. Looking at its condition, worth every penny (or cent) and I expect it has a mighty reserve on it. So you with deep pockets this might be what you have been waiting for!! (Just allow for the cost of getting it back from California)

lakesrally

Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by lakesrally » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:50 am

Looks like I might have to buy a lottery ticket this week, it's the only way I could afford it but what a cracking car, I can only dream.

andrewmcg
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by andrewmcg » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:50 pm

This car has been known to the RSR for a number of years and according to the info on the RSR archive database I can advise as follows on its history as we know it and which I pass on in good faith.

It first came into the RSR in the late 1970's under the ownership of the late Richard Stenning who had owned it since 1972, he gave no previous history other than it was Blue in colour with blue trim and was off the road in need of restoration .

In the early 1980's, still in need of restoration, he sold it to the late Geoffrey Kent, when I saw it in Geoff's garage block in Rushden it was complete but looked like a major restoration, he showed me a knob/lever on the rear by the wheel arch panel which enabled the hood to be power operated, an extra he claimed was unique to this car??. When Geoff died his son Barry sold it in 2002 to an American for a reported £12,000, he was not a member of the RSR, but his name I understand was Thomas Sulley, whose job brought him to a number of European Cities including London on a regular basis.

I was later advised by Howard Buchanan, long time RSR member who also owns a very nice 20DHC, that he had recently seen this car and that the new owner was spending a fortune on the car with a complete body off ground up restoration, some of which according to Howard was not asper original spec. Looking at the pictures the spare wheel location and cover being 2 obvious ones, it would interesting to see what the boot area looks like?? does it still have the spare wheel shape in the lid ??

I see that Charles Crail are classic car dealers in Santa Barbara, California I wonder if they are selling on behalf of Thomas Sulley himself or his estate, or a subsequent owner, their wording is not too clear to me ??

Hi there Dirk if you are reading this can you throw any light on the cars history/ownership in the USA ??

Regards

Andrew McGovern
Pre 1950 RSR Archivist

chris dancey
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by chris dancey » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:17 pm

My own point of view on the side mounted spare wheel...ugh !!
1934 ( 1935 model ) P1 '10' Saloon RD 6160
1935 P1 '10' Saloon ( originally JB 6729 ) now VSJ 156
1946 P2 '14' Sports Saloon KPG 855
1933 MG J2 Cycle Wing Model APB 560
1933 MG J2 Competition Model ALX 124

dhbuchanan
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by dhbuchanan » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:04 pm

So this is the Stenning 20 DHC in its latest condition. As I understood it at the time, Richard Stenning sold EWK 592 to Geoff Kent because his wife put her foot down about too many cars being stored at the matrimonial home. There's been no reply to my inquiry within the club as to whether it was a Stenning family car from new as claimed, but I would say this was most unlikely and that Richard got it from the market in 1972.I agree with Chris Dancey that the shrouded sidemount is awful. It would perhaps have been slightly less of a travesty if there had been another on the off-side to balance, but the sad fact is that some American customers are inclined to specify this kind of modification. Sidemounts like this look fine on the Charlesworth and Cross and Ellis Alvis front-wing profile and on the Lagonda LG 45, but not on the Rover helmet wing shape.Close examination of the side-profile online photos reveals that the boot shape is now a plain curve with no spare-wheel housing outline. Significantly, there is no full-on rearview image posted of this car. I wonder why not.
The standard of restoration work is extremely high, as you would expect for a $350K outlay at top companies. What a pity they failed to seek advice on the finishing of the rad.slats which are painted instead of being chromed. This detail is the one thing that distinguishes the 20 from the outwardly virtually identical 14 and 16.
After a high-speed demo. ride in my car a few years ago,(the now apparently deceased) Thomas Sulley, whose son appears to have sold it to the dealer who has now put it up for sale, declared that the drophead needed to be shod with radials as the cross-ply roadholding wasn't good enough.At the time, just after Sulley had started the restoration, 5.50 radials were available in 16" size only. Are those 16" wheels on EWK 592 or has it got the new Excelsior 17" 5.50s? You know, the ones from Northants Tyres at £185+ VAT apiece! The tread pattern is certainly unusual. Maybe he settled for crossplies after all.
The info. about the "power" hood "knob" on the offside rear quarter is interesting. Tommy Balls, a Salmons employee, designed a crank-operated "wind-up, wind-down" hood mechanism which featured on quite a few Tickford cars and conversions in the late 20s and 30s, and was inspired by the emerging owner-driver and lady-driver markets. This, however. was never electrically-powered, relying on high-gearing and load balance for its ease of operation. I examined one when working on a Tickford Hillman Wizard and there was no way you could have fitted electrical power assistance. It's been known for a long time that a Tickford Rover DHC had been fitted from new with a Balls (the name sticks in the memory, somehow) mechanism, but whether it was EWK 592 I wouldn't know. What seems certain is that there is now no sign of a winding point on the car's rear quarter. It would be no surprise to learn that a complete concealed modern power hood set-up has been installed: the photo of the boot interior appears to show that the bottom rear edge of the hood material is not tacked to the ash bow along the body edge in front of the swage line.
1939 20 H.P. Salmons Tickford D.H.C.

achandler
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by achandler » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:48 am

What a fascinating amount of information. As I suspected both Richard and Geoff Kent had a hand in this cars history - I wonder what they might say about the car in its present condition. Mind I seem to remember Richard was not averse to trying a little modification in his time. Didn't he fit a 3 litre engine and gearbox into a P3? I bet that went well!
I wonder if the present owner retained the original bootlid, so that the car could be put back to original, or whether the present bootlid was the original adapted rather than a new fabrication. We probably will never know as it will probably disappear into a rich american private collection or motor museum.
However having said that, I understand that the Panelcraft P5 convertible has returned to the UK from its trip to the Antipodes, so there is always hope.

apkok
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by apkok » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:41 am

Sorry if it offends our Transatlantic cousins but this car does look rather 'American'. I suppose it might be considered a 'restomod' but the spare wheel re-positioning has detracted from the character of the car, in my opinion. At least it hasn't got whitewalls fitted.

Of course the above might be sour grapes because the car's out of my financial reach.

Alan

p2roverman
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by p2roverman » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:23 pm

Just to add to the history of the car, I've known it since it was in Richard Stenning's possession. I believe his brother found it in London, but was not the previous owner. Richard did not sell it through matrimonial pressure, it was sold long before he got married. It could have been a rented space problem, at the time he also owned a 1939 14hp DHC bought from me as well as his P3, 16hp, and P4s. Both these dropheads were sold to Geoff Kent, the 14hp being sold on to an RSR member in Scotland, but not before it rolled off Geoff's trailer in transit.
The 20hp drophead did have a hole in the body for a handle to wind up the hood.
The restoration was a major saga. The first company to work on it was Chesterton Coachworks. They found the chassis to be bent, and the car has now been rebuilt on a 1946 16hp chassis I supplied, at the same time as I took down a set of my inner and outer sills and running boards. I understand Mr Sulley (who did visit me with a view to buying my 1939 20hp drophead) was particularly fastidious with the result that the partly built car was moved to Tim Walker Restorations. A completely new rear end of the body was made (I now have the original rear end), the reason given was that the original bootlid arrangement with the spare wheel attached was too heavy for Mr Sulley to manage. The restorers told me that three pairs of front wings were made before they were deemed satisfactory, I was also told they are in aluminium, although this would need to be checked. The bonnet top and sides may also be in aluminium. The final parts of the restoration was carried out by Alpine Eagle, who I believe to be Alvis specialists. (Please note that the car may have gone to Tim Walker first before moving to Chesterton Coachworks, I need to check this).
It is sad to report that in the pursuit of perfection, at least in the owner's eye, the restoration took so long that Mr Sulley passed away just before it was finished.
Mike Evans

GOY189
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by GOY189 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:03 pm

There are some photographs on the Tim Walker restorations web site, http://www.timwalkerrestorations.co.uk/ ... -20hp.html.

Mike Maher

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luli
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Re: 1940 Rover 20 Tickford Drophead on ebay

Post by luli » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:01 pm

dhbuchanan wrote: After a high-speed demo. ride in my car a few years ago,(the now apparently deceased) Thomas Sulley, whose son appears to have sold it to the dealer who has now put it up for sale, declared that the drophead needed to be shod with radials as the cross-ply roadholding wasn't good enough. At the time, just after Sulley had started the restoration, 5.50 radials were available in 16" size only. Are those 16" wheels on EWK 592 or has it got the new Excelsior 17" 5.50s? You know, the ones from Northants Tyres at £185+ VAT apiece! The tread pattern is certainly unusual. Maybe he settled for crossplies after all.
.
The tyres are Michelin cross-ply, the type Coker used to sell. Even I have them on my humble 1946 Rover 10, although mine are 475X17, as it should be...
luli
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Last edited by luli on Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rover 10 1946 RHD
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