National Rally

RobHomewood
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:04 pm

National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:51 pm

My thanks to all those who offered advice and help on my electrical problems with my P2 over the rally weekend. I didnt get a lot of people's names unfortunately but appreciate the cameraderie. We have just got home to Falmouth having not found a battery charger or a solution. In the end we winged it and got here without a hitch having overnighted in Bradford on Avon. Would you believe it out friends there have now got an electric car so no longer have a battery charger!
Anyway there was obviously enough current getting out of the dynamo even if it wasn't getting to the battery but I took no chances and used the starting handle throughout - the most it has ever been used!
As soon as the dust had settled I shall be out there methodically going though the voltage regulator and dynamo etc until i get to the bottom of the problem
I should also say we did thoroughly enjoy the weekend and all the chat so thanks also to all those who laboured to make everything work on the day
regards
Rob

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luli
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Re: National Rally

Post by luli » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:19 am

May I suggest Daynamator? It costs about the same of a regulator but will solve charging problems once and for all. https://lulisml.wordpress.com/2015/05/06/daynamator/
Rover 10 1946 RHD
Rover 10 1947 LHD
Rover 12 1947 tourer LHD
http://lulisml.wordpress.com/

TonyG
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Re: National Rally

Post by TonyG » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:21 am

I have to agree with Luli that a Dynamator is a great solution. When rebuilding my Tourer I didn’t even consider using the old dynamo and regulator set up. Not just because of the relative ease of installation and ongoing simplicity of maintenance, but also because an alternator provides far superior charging capability. I recall only too well my cars from the 60s which struggled to start on cold mornings if I’d been on a long journey the day before with headlights on. Mind you, the battery probably wasn’t in peak condition!

There are some very expensive versions on the market but the Dynamator is about £150 and looks very similar to the dynamo it replaces. I fitted mine three years ago and I’ve never had occasion to disconnect or re-charge the battery in that time. A couple of installation pointers I’d give is: 1/ use a locking tab on the pulley nut and not the spring washer supplied. 2/ create an insulated sleeve to cover the connection on rear of Dynamator. You can see from Luli’s picture how close this is to the distributor so the risk of a short is great when, say, adjusting the timing. I used a rubber plug cap and removed the metal innards. This slides over the wire and connection nut very neatly. Also a great opportunity to convert to negative earth; aside from reversing the battery, coil and ammeter connections, everything else should work ok. An electric fuel pump might be positive earth only, if fitted.

The debate is one of originality of course. However, my view is that we don’t live in the 1930s and subtle modifications to make a classic car more usable in modern traffic are sensible whether it’s flashing indicators, modern tyres, electronic ignition, electric fuel pumps or LED bulbs. The main thing is to keep these old cars on the road and not being a nuisance to other road users.

Tony.
Tony Gilbert

P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport

RobHomewood
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Re: National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:49 pm

Thanks both. I have found that I have 2 spare dynamos and 1 spare regulator so at least for the time being I shall test them out as a way of finding the fault
Rob

RobHomewood
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Re: National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Could anyone assist please with some information on Lucas voltage regulators? I have removed the one from the car (1939 14 DHC) expecting to replace it with the spare I found in the treasure trove of parts I inherited. However the one I removed was a RF91 and the spare is a RF95/2. They seem very similar apart from a different order of connections. Are they interchangeable? And what was the original box please? I thought at first the ref no might indicate a year but the RF95/2 is 39057B-48 (possible) and the RF91 334572-29 (surely not 1929?)
I am planning to put on the spare to check where my current fault is (forgive the pun) but may refit the other if it is the original. ( I have swapped out the dynamo and that does not seem to have changed anything - a fraction of an amp getting to the battery and the ammeter always reading negative)
regards
Rob

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paul williams
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Re: National Rally

Post by paul williams » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:37 pm

if it helps this has been discussed before

https://www.rover-forum.thersr.co.uk/vi ... 4174#p9147

Paul Williams
1929 2 litre Coachbuilt Saloon
1951 Rover Cyclops
1958 Rover P4 90 Monte-Carlo Rally Car
1998 Discovery 300Tdi 3dr
1994 Rover 620 Sli


RobHomewood
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Re: National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:54 am

Thanks Paul
It would seem to be a straight swap is possible. If not I shall look at the other options
Rob

RobHomewood
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Re: National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:19 pm

Update on the control box. It turns out the RF95/2 is physically slightly different. The fixing holes are closer together than th RF91 and the base is deeper meaning the original fixing screws intyo the bulkhead are not long enough.
I have now found in the spares an apparently unused factory rebuild control box from Parks (£3 10s it says on the box!). It looks physically similar to the RF95/2 but is a CB17. I now need to check this one out
Rob

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luli
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Re: National Rally

Post by luli » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:48 pm

If all you want to do is to check the RF95 use only one bolt. Decide about the other if the result is positive.
Rover 10 1946 RHD
Rover 10 1947 LHD
Rover 12 1947 tourer LHD
http://lulisml.wordpress.com/

RobHomewood
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: National Rally

Post by RobHomewood » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:40 pm

I seem to have run out of ideas here and would welcome any suggetsions. The problem is repeated flat battery ( still positive earth).
To summarise - I have in turn swapped out the dynamo, then polished up the control box contacts, then fitted the CB17 control box noted above, then replaced the (ropy) wires between the dynamo and control box, then refitted the original dynamo with new brushes, then replaced old wiring between ammeter and starter solenoid and all to no avail, The only change is that after I fitted the CB17 control box the ignition light stays on and only fades slightly when I rev up. The ammeter stays subbornly in the negative and never goes towards positive. The ammeter does seem to be working as it drops from zero to about -8 amps when the ignition and pump are switched on. It hits the negative stop briefly when I switch on the pass light on - I think there re is a short - but returns with a couple of taps. (The other lamps are LED's)
I think all the equipment is working but maybe a random wire is broken/shorting somewhere? Anyone know which wire when broken could stop the ammeter charging?
I still think some charge must be getting through as we drove about 250 miles to the National Rally without a problem after using the starting handle and back again with overnight stops. I charged up the battery on return and despite numerous starts in the garage the battery is still showing about 12.5V with everything switched off, so I feel the battery is OK.
I bet it is something stupid but I dont recall knowingly doing anything which might have affected the charging - the only remote chance is that I reversed the polarity on the coil as per advice given elsewhere. But I understood that would not affect anything else.
Any thoughts gratefull received
Rob

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