Hello list,
Next on the to ' sort out' list for the Kitcher rebuild is the suspension. Wonder if there is someone out there in RoverLand who has done this conversio0n on a P2 from the old lever arm damper to more modern telescopic. I would be grateful for any advice on doing this more so concerning bump and rebound or the damping force and rebound force that would be needed to be worked out for a car with this heavy 16HP engine. ( what is the weight of a 16HP?).
I have been searching and asking around down here for some time on what would be the best way to proceed or even anyone who can give me advice or perhaps restore the lever arm but so far found no one. All I've had is get rid of the lever arms and put shockies on.
I have had a price to send all 4 lever arm over to UK however the cost in post to UK and back is just about the same as getting them restored. Guess the end decision will be the cost sending the originals over to UK verse trying to find something telescopic down here but then not original but must look period … ‘O’ the joys of restoring these old cars…(smile)
Den
P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
I believe there was a conversion (but as with anything steering or suspension related, any departure from manufacturers standard specification is at the individuals own risk.) I have seen a diagram showing a bracket with a plate that attached to the shocker mount at the front. It had an arm welded to it that sloped forward and had a mounting at the top for the eye on the telescopic shocke. The bottom eye of the telescopic is bolted to the existing eye on the axle that takes the vertical link to the arm of the existing shocker (hope that makes sense).
As regards spring rate and bound /rebound, my Kitcher has had some spring leaves removed as the springs were rated for a steel bodied saloon, not a wood/ aluminium special body.
As you may have guessed, I'm thinking along the same lines - will keep you posted
Mike
As regards spring rate and bound /rebound, my Kitcher has had some spring leaves removed as the springs were rated for a steel bodied saloon, not a wood/ aluminium special body.
As you may have guessed, I'm thinking along the same lines - will keep you posted
Mike
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Thanks Mike,
Had a chat with Mike Couldry about this subject the other day,seems he has an answer and can supply a kit already made up using telescopic dampers from the P3 and a bracket that as you say fits into the existing mounting holes, always a bonus.
Den.
Had a chat with Mike Couldry about this subject the other day,seems he has an answer and can supply a kit already made up using telescopic dampers from the P3 and a bracket that as you say fits into the existing mounting holes, always a bonus.
Den.
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Hi Den and Mike,
My rear shocks are very bad. I sent a picture to Mike Couldry and they appeared to be Rotaflex and just a lump of rubber as he stated.
On my search for original 4-bolt Luvax I haven't been successfull yet for a reasonable price. (Anyone in the club?)
I too was thinking about telescopics at the rear, so I am interested too know if there is a conversion. Could probably make plates myself, but always interesting to see how others did it and I think you would need very short telecopics.
Den, I assume you have the same P2 chassis as I have?
Best Regards, Hans
My rear shocks are very bad. I sent a picture to Mike Couldry and they appeared to be Rotaflex and just a lump of rubber as he stated.
On my search for original 4-bolt Luvax I haven't been successfull yet for a reasonable price. (Anyone in the club?)
I too was thinking about telescopics at the rear, so I am interested too know if there is a conversion. Could probably make plates myself, but always interesting to see how others did it and I think you would need very short telecopics.
Den, I assume you have the same P2 chassis as I have?
Best Regards, Hans
My first car ever (40 years ago): Rover P5 3-litre
Now: JZR-Harley Davidson Shovelhead (Morgan clone) and '36 Kitcher Special Tourer
Now: JZR-Harley Davidson Shovelhead (Morgan clone) and '36 Kitcher Special Tourer
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
((((Hi Hans,
First sorry for the late reply. My little old Mum passed away just as I was about to send this. Then unfortunately lost track of cars stuff. I haven’t proofed it so hope you understand what I’m trying to say. Hope this is still in time to help.
Dennis)))
Hello Hans, I’ve no idea if our chassis will be the same mine is a 46 12HP.
On the assumption that they are, the following is what I’ve worked out. However until the car is finished I wont know for sure. After doing a bit of research and talking to various Rover P2 and Suspension experts it would seem that the best solution for what I want is,
1. Convert the front to telescopic ( not hard just give Mike Cauldry a call).
2. leave the rear as lever arm and rubber bushes’( the body tub is now very light).
3. Go the whole hog and convert to coil over all round.
4.
My reasoning for changing the front is as you know the front of a car has to contend with most of the braking, steering and cornering plus the extra weight of the engine, I'm sure there are many on the list who know more on this then I do. As such with all these forces coming into play at the same time the bump & rebound, twisting and stress on the old set up are such that the lever arms on the front don’t cut it and cause all sorts of handling problems. Add a bit of speed going into a corner and a dab of braking and all sorts of dramas can take place ( which is part of the fun most times or a bit scary on others (smile).
As to the rear end; athe body tub is now so light due to the fact of the old heavy factory wallowing steel body being ditch and replaced with a low very light aluminium tub there’s not much for the rear dampers to contend with. When the old body was fitted they are there mostly to contend with bump & rebound ( could say helps the mother in-laws arse from getting sore which in turn protects your ears(smile) and of course their main job is to try and keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground during cornering and body roll ( the cars not the mother in-laws). In fact all the Mikes in the U.K. (Maher, Couldry and Evens) have suggested that I remove one leaf from the rear springs as it will be so light. I will wait until the first drive to see how she handles then decide what I will do on this one.
I thought a lot about an all round change over to coil over dampers. On the plus side I could purchase a set of adjustable , I think black with chromed springs on the front would look rather sexy, not a hard ask to have softer leaf springs left on just to act as axel locators. I then thought of the following reasons of why not. A. They are not Rover. B. Not in keeping with the period of the car. C. Not a lot of room at the back under the body tub. D. The mother in-law likes her rear end to wallow.(smile).
As an aside anyone with a P2 saloon would do themselves a big favour and buy one of the conversions from Mike C. In the case of specials like ours I would suggest you only buy the bottom and top mounting bolts and one top mounting bracket to work out the angles as these are made to suit normal cars and may not fit yours, as they wouldn’t fit mine, but they do make a good pattern for adapting to suit your car. On mine I reversed the bottom bolt taper to get it to fit backwards and made my own top brackets out of an old bit of channel from a chassis cross member to look period. I have a few photos I can send if you like? Perhaps there is someone near you who has a P2 Sedan that will buy Mike’s conversion and you can borrow to look at.
I have also used a front torsion bar from a P2 16 as it is thicker I’m hoping it will help with better road manners however if not its not a big job to change back to the thinner one I have.
In war there are no unwounded soldiers.
Den Gallacher
First sorry for the late reply. My little old Mum passed away just as I was about to send this. Then unfortunately lost track of cars stuff. I haven’t proofed it so hope you understand what I’m trying to say. Hope this is still in time to help.
Dennis)))
Hello Hans, I’ve no idea if our chassis will be the same mine is a 46 12HP.
On the assumption that they are, the following is what I’ve worked out. However until the car is finished I wont know for sure. After doing a bit of research and talking to various Rover P2 and Suspension experts it would seem that the best solution for what I want is,
1. Convert the front to telescopic ( not hard just give Mike Cauldry a call).
2. leave the rear as lever arm and rubber bushes’( the body tub is now very light).
3. Go the whole hog and convert to coil over all round.
4.
My reasoning for changing the front is as you know the front of a car has to contend with most of the braking, steering and cornering plus the extra weight of the engine, I'm sure there are many on the list who know more on this then I do. As such with all these forces coming into play at the same time the bump & rebound, twisting and stress on the old set up are such that the lever arms on the front don’t cut it and cause all sorts of handling problems. Add a bit of speed going into a corner and a dab of braking and all sorts of dramas can take place ( which is part of the fun most times or a bit scary on others (smile).
As to the rear end; athe body tub is now so light due to the fact of the old heavy factory wallowing steel body being ditch and replaced with a low very light aluminium tub there’s not much for the rear dampers to contend with. When the old body was fitted they are there mostly to contend with bump & rebound ( could say helps the mother in-laws arse from getting sore which in turn protects your ears(smile) and of course their main job is to try and keep the rear wheels in contact with the ground during cornering and body roll ( the cars not the mother in-laws). In fact all the Mikes in the U.K. (Maher, Couldry and Evens) have suggested that I remove one leaf from the rear springs as it will be so light. I will wait until the first drive to see how she handles then decide what I will do on this one.
I thought a lot about an all round change over to coil over dampers. On the plus side I could purchase a set of adjustable , I think black with chromed springs on the front would look rather sexy, not a hard ask to have softer leaf springs left on just to act as axel locators. I then thought of the following reasons of why not. A. They are not Rover. B. Not in keeping with the period of the car. C. Not a lot of room at the back under the body tub. D. The mother in-law likes her rear end to wallow.(smile).
As an aside anyone with a P2 saloon would do themselves a big favour and buy one of the conversions from Mike C. In the case of specials like ours I would suggest you only buy the bottom and top mounting bolts and one top mounting bracket to work out the angles as these are made to suit normal cars and may not fit yours, as they wouldn’t fit mine, but they do make a good pattern for adapting to suit your car. On mine I reversed the bottom bolt taper to get it to fit backwards and made my own top brackets out of an old bit of channel from a chassis cross member to look period. I have a few photos I can send if you like? Perhaps there is someone near you who has a P2 Sedan that will buy Mike’s conversion and you can borrow to look at.
I have also used a front torsion bar from a P2 16 as it is thicker I’m hoping it will help with better road manners however if not its not a big job to change back to the thinner one I have.
In war there are no unwounded soldiers.
Den Gallacher
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Hello,
Interested to read of your suspension mods.Although your car is more "classic", what it shares with my hotrodded example is the idea of making something out of what is in front of you.I have fitted Rose jointed telescopic AVO coilovers(off my old v8 stockcar)to the rear, using brackets welded to the bottom spring seats, reversing the lever arm mounting brackets above the chassis, and then making a sturdy vertical mount out of 2" box.Since the springs are already so stiff, I will probably not put the coils on, just run them as adjustable shocks.This mod wil probably mean the inner arches will need notching, and would possibly not work on a stock back axle(the FX4Taxi one I'm using is a bit wider).The axle seems to be laterally located nicely by the springs, and the shocks are nearly vertical, which should help traction.Tramp bars are another plan.
As for the front, the lever arms are MOT-able,and quite compact, so can stay for the time being, the ride height with the chevy engine sits 1"higher than the old four cylinder, which amazed me.
Anway, enough wittering, enjoy using your old cars!
Interested to read of your suspension mods.Although your car is more "classic", what it shares with my hotrodded example is the idea of making something out of what is in front of you.I have fitted Rose jointed telescopic AVO coilovers(off my old v8 stockcar)to the rear, using brackets welded to the bottom spring seats, reversing the lever arm mounting brackets above the chassis, and then making a sturdy vertical mount out of 2" box.Since the springs are already so stiff, I will probably not put the coils on, just run them as adjustable shocks.This mod wil probably mean the inner arches will need notching, and would possibly not work on a stock back axle(the FX4Taxi one I'm using is a bit wider).The axle seems to be laterally located nicely by the springs, and the shocks are nearly vertical, which should help traction.Tramp bars are another plan.
As for the front, the lever arms are MOT-able,and quite compact, so can stay for the time being, the ride height with the chevy engine sits 1"higher than the old four cylinder, which amazed me.
Anway, enough wittering, enjoy using your old cars!
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Hi P2V8,
With a moniker like that I think I would like to see your car. Any chance you could send in photos or send to my email (den@aachenkennels.com). Although I'm not into hot rods as such I do like the idea of retro fitting cars ( there is a good magazine out with that name) and like you believe in getting these old cars on the road. Of course I like the old cars to stay as the factory made them however I would much rather see one on the road with a retro or custom fit out then see it go for scrap or parts. There is an absolute brilliant Red P4 in UK that is running a Chevy, although that engine is not for me I can certainly appreciate good engineering and the chap has kept it within the original Rover looks inside. Truly a lovely car.
I’m sure I wrote in before about a 47 P2 I found with the body in superb condition. All of the body is complete with no rust at all and all outside bright work. Some parts of the front floor pan have been chopped out but not so much that it cannot be an easy fix. All of the inside trim is there, no seats, or I have bits laying around, glass , door handle and other bright work is all there. What isn’t there is anything that I can fit it to plus will make it move. Questions is what to do with it as trying to get anything for a P2 down here in Oz is not easy, plus and I mean a big plus, its bloody expensive...
At the moment my thoughts are getting hold of a late P4 chassis and fitting the body to that. I can get one for next to nothing or give away just got to wait for the right one. To make it easier to get it road approved down here in Oz all I have to do is stay with the P4 paperwork just say it’s a re-bodied P4 then drop a rover V8 in.
With a moniker like that I think I would like to see your car. Any chance you could send in photos or send to my email (den@aachenkennels.com). Although I'm not into hot rods as such I do like the idea of retro fitting cars ( there is a good magazine out with that name) and like you believe in getting these old cars on the road. Of course I like the old cars to stay as the factory made them however I would much rather see one on the road with a retro or custom fit out then see it go for scrap or parts. There is an absolute brilliant Red P4 in UK that is running a Chevy, although that engine is not for me I can certainly appreciate good engineering and the chap has kept it within the original Rover looks inside. Truly a lovely car.
I’m sure I wrote in before about a 47 P2 I found with the body in superb condition. All of the body is complete with no rust at all and all outside bright work. Some parts of the front floor pan have been chopped out but not so much that it cannot be an easy fix. All of the inside trim is there, no seats, or I have bits laying around, glass , door handle and other bright work is all there. What isn’t there is anything that I can fit it to plus will make it move. Questions is what to do with it as trying to get anything for a P2 down here in Oz is not easy, plus and I mean a big plus, its bloody expensive...
At the moment my thoughts are getting hold of a late P4 chassis and fitting the body to that. I can get one for next to nothing or give away just got to wait for the right one. To make it easier to get it road approved down here in Oz all I have to do is stay with the P4 paperwork just say it’s a re-bodied P4 then drop a rover V8 in.
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Hello again,thanks for your comments.I know of the red P3 running a Chevy, beautifully done, with Jag supension etc.My one is going to be mostly Rover if I can keep it that way, plus the Bureaucrats don't like you altering much on your car these days.This will mean original chassis, body, steering and suspension.Most likely original paint, too,a budget Hotrod for Austere times, bit like 1947 when it was built.
Like your chassis swap idea, not sure about the rover v8 though(deadly hush), bits cost a lot more for them than Chevy engines, each to his own.The 3 litre was a good lump.
Will add some pics at some stage, while being mindful that this sort of modification is not everyone's cup of tea-still,saw a p3 being banger raced the other day that was in much better condition than my old thing,now it has gone forever.
cheers.
Like your chassis swap idea, not sure about the rover v8 though(deadly hush), bits cost a lot more for them than Chevy engines, each to his own.The 3 litre was a good lump.
Will add some pics at some stage, while being mindful that this sort of modification is not everyone's cup of tea-still,saw a p3 being banger raced the other day that was in much better condition than my old thing,now it has gone forever.
cheers.
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
Hi P2V8 & DenGal,
Interested to read your front suspension conversion experiences. I'm currently gathering components for my P2 special. There's not much body work left so time will tell how that side of things develops. I'm aiming to get a fully rolling chassis and the conversion with the shocks is something I want to do. Do you have any pictures? I've a late 30's chassis.
Cheers
Interested to read your front suspension conversion experiences. I'm currently gathering components for my P2 special. There's not much body work left so time will tell how that side of things develops. I'm aiming to get a fully rolling chassis and the conversion with the shocks is something I want to do. Do you have any pictures? I've a late 30's chassis.
Cheers
Re: P2 Suspension for the Kitcher
yes I do, however as I'm now what I personnel refer to as a TWIT (Trouble With Internet Technology) I will need to take awahile to have a bash at sending them here.if you send me an email to den@aachenkennels.com I can reply with the photos simply attached.
Den.
Den.