P3 Brakes saga

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buzzhealey
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:45 am

P3 Brakes saga

Post by buzzhealey » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

In April of last year 2010 the wheel cylinders on my P3 leaked. Due to a paucity of spares (please don’t argue this matter), I fitted P4 cylinders. Brakes worked fine.

Come August just on a pre-MOT check there was discovered to be a leak in the back of the master-cylinder. Although this did not affect the braking, it would have been enough to give a fail. So new seals were obtained and fitted. Now began the problem. :evil: It was impossible to achieve full braking. Bleeding the brakes removed all air but on a road test, although the first two pumps produced good stopping the pedal would then “go to the floor”. The power would recover after a while and good stopping would once again be achieved. The brakes were once again bled with no difference.

It was decided that the cause was that the piston was not returning fully and was staying in the depressed position, possibly due to the seal rotating in the barrel. The master cylinder was again removed and stripped, this time also having the barrel honed and the piston polished as well as another set of seals being inserted. At the same time, on the assumption that the spring might be weak, a new sprig was made and inserted. No change! The operation was gone through again (by this time I was getting quite adept in removing the MC – 25 minutes to remove including lifting the car and 20 to replace to wheels on the ground!) and this time a much stronger spring was inserted. You’ve guessed – no change.

So it was decided, even though there was previously good braking with the mix of the P4 wheel cylinders to P3 MC, that the mix might be the fault and to fit the slightly larger P4 MC. Worked a dream but now we were at the end of the season and the car only did about 50 miles over the rest of the year. :| No fault in the breaking right up till early summer this year, in fact did one trip of over 140 miles in a day and all the time no braking problem. However, I had noticed a damp spot on the garage floor in the area which would be below the MC. Checked it out and the “new” MC was leaking at the back! So, new seals were obtained and fitted. You guessed right. Exactly the same problem.

So the question is what is happening? None of the “experts” I speak to has any suggestion of the cause beyond what I have determined above. Has anyone a suggestion as to what I might have done or what can be done or has anyone had this problem on a P3?
:?:

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paul williams
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm
Location: Telford,Shropshire
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Re: P3 Brakes saga

Post by paul williams » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:53 pm

Hi,
and welcome to the forum. There are many owners of P3s on the forum and I am sure you will get a response from them. In the mean time I can relate a similar problem that I had on my 1951 P4. A similar setup to the P3 with the exception of 4 wheel hydraulic brakes.

My symptoms were that the brakes would work fine (for a P4) but after a number of aggressive stops the bake pedal would stay on the floor and not 'return' . (Actually it would but it took an age) The MC was taken off a number of times and fitted with new seals and internal springs, extra strong return springs were added to the chassis but still the problem remained. There were no leaks from the system at either the MC or at the wheels and when the MC was on the bench there was no way it would stick.

A replacement MC was found and fitted with new seals and spring but the same happened. After a few months of toeing the brake pedal to try and return it to normal I decided to rebuild the system . I replaced the pipes with copper and I think crucially replaced the flexible hoses. - Result was FIXED, as the only component that was suspect was the flexibles I decided that one or more of the flexible hoses had collapsed internally which was preventing the MC from returning. On inspection none of the three hoses showed any obvious physical evidence of damage.

So my conclusion was that I had a perished flexible, my question is that in all the rebuilds you have done have you replaced the flexible hoses?

Hope that helps.

Paul Williams
1929 2litre Saloon
1934 P1 10HP
1951 Rover Cyclops
1974 P6 3500
1998 LR Discovery I


chloe
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:06 am

Re: P3 Brakes saga

Post by chloe » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:38 am

Hi, A good thing to check is that the front brake shoe springs are correct. The top spring should be on the pin behind the rear shoe and not in the hole in the shoe. If the spring is in the shoe it will stop you getting a good pedal feel.

Barry
49 - P3
39 - 14

lakesrally

Re: P3 Brakes saga

Post by lakesrally » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:18 pm

I've not had any problems with the master cylinder but, as suggested by Paul, have had the flexibles collapse internally with no external signs of trouble. Replacing them was easy enough, getting the system bled was a nightmare, they really can be a pig, pressure bleeding is the way to go.

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