Timing, points gap etc.

David2021
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Location: Stratford upon Avon

Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by David2021 » Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:41 pm

Certainly a possibility. My distributor is a Lucas"E90" ie an exchange unit. Unused until I bought it a couple of years ago. It is the original pattern with the condenser fixed to the base plate.
How do you test a condenser?
If it is faulty I could probably rig up a condenser outside the distributor, or araldite one to the plate....

SHyslop
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Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by SHyslop » Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:08 am

IMG_20240719_0857350792.jpg
IMG_20240719_0857350792.jpg (25.69 KiB) Viewed 8449 times
For the best part of probably 15 years or so, I've been carrying one of the attached (picture) in each car with points. I buy a job lot of condensers and fit them up with leads and crocodile clips and put one on each car. If you suspect a condenser is faulty, no need to carry out potentially life threatening work at the roadside, just attach one clip to either the coil end or distributor end of the lead between the coil and distributor, and an earth. If the condenser is failing or failed, that will do until you can effect more permanent repairs. They are particularly handy for the soldered on type of condenser in the postwar car.

It is difficult to test a condenser at home other than by substitution and this is a very straightforward way of so doing.

Just a small postscript. Over 40 years and over 140 older cars that I'll have owned personally, somewhere between half and threequarters of them will have come to me with ignition systems where the actual component age would be closer to the date of the car being new than to the date I bought them. I've yet to be convinced that I have had a real coil failure - one was changed due to leaving the ignition on too long - but all the other suspected defective coils turned out to be something else. All the spare new coils are still on the shelf, the double coil set up on an RM Riley I prepared for long distance driving has never needed the coil changed over but the other bits - points, arm,condenser,cap,plugs -

From my earliest days my father, who served his time on these, always stuck to changing the lot every year. What I find interesting is that there's been so much written about how "unreliable" these are when, in fact, the real story is how much longer than their designed lifespan many have done. I will agree totally that new rotor arms with rivets should be binned on arrival and there can be some very dodgy cheap points but many of us have had "sterling" Rover service from these components and their eventual failure has been due to a lack of preventative maintenance over many many years by owners running them on a shoestring.
1934 12 Tourer, 1934 14 SS, 1935 12SS, 1936 12S,1937 10, 1938 20SS,1938 14S, 1939 16S, 1946 14S, 1946 16SS, 1947 12S

David2021
Posts: 285
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Location: Stratford upon Avon

Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by David2021 » Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:35 pm

Thanks, I will make up something on those lines.
I had a condenser fail back in the 60s on a three year old MG1100. I was stymied because I was getting a spark at the plug, but under any load the engine died! The man in a yellow van diagnosed it correctly, fitted a new condenser….job done!
I do have a spare baseplate with condenser, but will follow your advice!
D

Willem
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Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by Willem » Fri Jul 19, 2024 4:28 pm

I can understand the crocodile clips and the piece of wire soldered onto it but what is the other bit, looks like a bulb holder but I guess it is something else..
Rover 12 Tourer, 1936
Range rover L322, 2009

SHyslop
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Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:17 pm

Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by SHyslop » Fri Jul 19, 2024 4:43 pm

There is no bulbholder and there is no solder. There is a new (any type) surplus condenser off anything that comes in quantity at reasonable cost and it's a simple case of attaching any terminals to it that make a secure connection to two crocodile clips. Nothing more. Unfortunately the poor resolution of photos here means I can't show the pictures with more pixels.
1934 12 Tourer, 1934 14 SS, 1935 12SS, 1936 12S,1937 10, 1938 20SS,1938 14S, 1939 16S, 1946 14S, 1946 16SS, 1947 12S

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luli
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Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by luli » Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:23 am

A little inexpensive device that would help you measure accurately the inductance of your coil and the capacitance of your condenser and determine their condition. See here:

https://lulis.org/2019/07/17/%d7%9c%d7% ... 7%94-coil/

and for better understanding of the ignition circuit and its components read the articles tat begin here:

https://lulis.org/2019/05/14/%D7%92%D7% ... %91%D7%9C/
Rover 10 1946 RHD
Rover 10 1947 LHD
Rover 12 1947 tourer LHD
http://lulisml.wordpress.com/

David2021
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Location: Stratford upon Avon

Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by David2021 » Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:27 pm

I had a spare baseplate with points but no condenser! so I found a spare condenser wit quite along mounting strip & used that rathe than attempting to solder it in place. Reconnected everything (oh, and fitted a new cork seal on the distributor shaft) I also attempted to make the distributor more rigid on its fitting, Only with modest success...am I missing a shim somewhere? Anyway the engine fired up fine, so everything is in the right place! I must have disturbed a dynamo lead when replacing the distributor, because one terminal is loose and It's not charging! Retightening the terminal has not fixed it, it may be the lead inside the case has been disturbed.

Willem
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Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by Willem » Wed Jul 31, 2024 6:23 pm

Hi David,

funny you have a charging problem, COA had a very run down battery (8v), re charged and went for a short drive, battery empty so no start, bump started and managed to get home, checked, no charging and a rapid discharge, not sure what is a happening.no time this week but will have an investigation next week.
Rover 12 Tourer, 1936
Range rover L322, 2009

rgburlend
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Timing, points gap etc.

Post by rgburlend » Tue Aug 06, 2024 9:03 pm

Hi Willem,
Your original question was regarding dwell angles, ignition components and the fact that the car runs rich. Much has been written about the quality of ignition parts these days and everyone will have their own opinion. Mine for what it is worth is that a modern electronic ignition system and a suitable coil will eliminate your problems and make the car far more reliable with a couple of provisos:
The distributor is probably well overdue for an overhaul, take it apart and check it thoroughly for wear and correct operation especially of the automatic advance mechanism. Your car will not run well with a poor distributor however good the points etc. If you are not confident to do this yourself, there are several specialists will undertake the work for you. get everything working as it should and your car will be transformed.
The mixture of an SU carburettor cannot be adjusted to any meaningful extent other than to produce smooth even running at tickover. if your car is running rich, take the carb apart check it for wear especially in the butterfly spindle, clean it carefully replace any parts that are defective and reassemble with new seals, needle and jet taking particular care to ensure that the needle is centralised. It is the needle profile that controls the mixture and to alter the mixture you need an alternative needle. If your needle is in good condition and is the correct one for your car, then have a look at the Minty lamb website (http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/) and check on your needle profile and select another that is richer /weaker in the appropriate range. While you are about it, it might well be worth checking for air leaks on the manifold and personally I am a great believer in clean filtered air so I would fit a suitable quality air filter to the car as well. Sensible modifications that make the car more reliable and economical will enhance the driving experience.
Don't worry at all about the dwell angle, just so long as the car is in good order and running nicely

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