sticking brake lights
sticking brake lights
can anybody tell me where the brake light switch is 1946/ 12
Re: sticking brake lights
Before writing this, let me say that my own post war 12 is in a garage not at home but I'm fairly certain there are no differences between the models, so I've looked at some others at home and refreshed my memory, I hope.
Open the driver's side bonnet. Stand at the bulkhead and look straight down. You should see a crossmember, U shape. The brake light switch is the square metal box in the U. They are usually well doused with oil and debris. An original one is usually repairable if the switch itself is at fault where nothing has actually broken but the internal spring has stuck. The problem may be the mechanical connection to the switch but you will see this when you find the switch.
The switch is held on by two small bolts and nuts. If you take it out, try and refit the switch with both bolts already in their holes . An extra pair of hands and eyes is useful for this job, one from above who can see it and one from below holding and moving the bits. If the car is not up on a ramp, it can be awkward to refit the wires if they are net in length. It really needs one pair of hands underneath to keep them in place while another from above tightens the terminal screws. If it can be fixed without taking anything apart much, all the better. Extra springs may have been fitted in years gone by to make the pull off work better and these may have broken or moved so save yourself extra work and see what's happening before taking anything apart. That is all broadly what I remember from the last time I was at one of these.
Open the driver's side bonnet. Stand at the bulkhead and look straight down. You should see a crossmember, U shape. The brake light switch is the square metal box in the U. They are usually well doused with oil and debris. An original one is usually repairable if the switch itself is at fault where nothing has actually broken but the internal spring has stuck. The problem may be the mechanical connection to the switch but you will see this when you find the switch.
The switch is held on by two small bolts and nuts. If you take it out, try and refit the switch with both bolts already in their holes . An extra pair of hands and eyes is useful for this job, one from above who can see it and one from below holding and moving the bits. If the car is not up on a ramp, it can be awkward to refit the wires if they are net in length. It really needs one pair of hands underneath to keep them in place while another from above tightens the terminal screws. If it can be fixed without taking anything apart much, all the better. Extra springs may have been fitted in years gone by to make the pull off work better and these may have broken or moved so save yourself extra work and see what's happening before taking anything apart. That is all broadly what I remember from the last time I was at one of these.
1934 12 Tourer, 1934 14 SS, 1935 12SS, 1936 12S,1937 10, 1938 20SS,1938 14S, 1939 16S, 1946 14S, 1946 16SS, 1947 12S
Re: sticking brake lights
thanks for the reply I have seen the box you refer to so that's Sundays job I think along with fitting my new tyres and tubes weather permiting
Re: sticking brake lights
got the brake light sticking sorted out you were right the problem did lie with the switch what happed is where the spring is fixed to the plunger pin or switch the actual pin had turned around and was catching on the cross member and not switching off .took a while to figure it out .
Re:new problem
my latest problem today is whilst driver today I set off from traffic lights nice and steady got to 3rd gear and car just died on me so I coasted to the side of the road and did all the usual checks dizzy no loose wires .so now looking at fuel so I gave the lifter pump a couple of pumps and away she went .short lived was my glory .so started to check around to find an electric fuel pump close to the tank.i gave it a knock and it started ticking away and stopped .
what I don't understand why some one fitted an electric pump and left the original still connected .is there an reason for this if anybody knows and if I fit a new Elec pump should I bypass the manual pump.
what I don't understand why some one fitted an electric pump and left the original still connected .is there an reason for this if anybody knows and if I fit a new Elec pump should I bypass the manual pump.
Re: sticking brake lights
There are people who believe the one type of fuel pump is superior to the other. Fitting an electric pump instead of a mechanical pump will solve some problems but can create others although it may take a lot of years for this to happen. Without seeing the setup on your cart it is hard to be totally specific as to what has been done but it is likely to be along the following lines.
The main question is, does the electric pump work a) through the mechanical pump, b) to the mechanical pump or c) as well as the mechanical pump ?
Knowing which of the options is on your car will help with any future problems, especially on the road so it is worth finding out now.
From what you've said, I think I'd start by seeing if the mechanical pump has a hand primer and if so, work it and feel and listen to what is happening. If it goes sort of "oink oink" or "eeh eeh" as you work the handle, then it still has its innnards- valves and diaphragm. The problem is, without extra piping, the mechanical pump can't pump petrol direct from the tank through the electric pump because of its valves. Therefore, the electric pump must work unless a bit of additional pipework has been installed involving non return valves and bypasses.
An electric pump at the rear should be of the "pusher" type, as fitted to MGBs and Stags. It shouldn't be a Morris Minor type which is a puller.
It can be handy to have an electric pump to feed petrol to the mechanical pump and save having to hand prime it (though it's hardly a chore!)or to help with supposed vapourisation. If the electric pump fails to work, so will the mechanical pump. That's the downside (unless it has extra pipework....)
If the mechanical pump has no valves then it can function as a conduit for the petrol to go through and look "original". However, it will have to have an intact diaphragm otherwise the fuel will end up in the sump.
Now, electric pumps are great when new but if yours has been doing little work for a long time, it is likely that the points may need cleaning and this, or sticking valves in the pump,or the condenser in the pump, may need attention. The other possibility (and it took me a while by the side of the road to diagnose this on my 47 12 with an original export model spec including a front mounted electric pump, ) is a poor electrical connection between the power supply lead and the pump. This is easily cured with a bit of cleaning and stainless steel 2BA serrated washers.
From the above, you will be realising why electric pumps can be great but also bring with them their own problems. Mechanical pumps can work exceptionally well if repaired with original quality valves and a diaphragm resistant to modern petrol, also a tight fitting top gasket and top bolt washer for any air leaks here will weaken the suction power of the pump.
What you do with what you've got is your choice but I hope the above will give you some thoughts as to what to look at. I'd suggest you go for an answer that involves fewer components than more and also components you can get to and keep an eye on but that's just my view.
Having said all that, it is worth also remembering the components at either end of the system that can suggest pump problems where there are none , namely the float and needle valve at the carburettor and also the petrol pick up pipe with its reserve tap. If the needle valve is shut and the carburettor is empty then the pump will stop pumping. If the petrol pick up is blocked or the valve doesn't work properly then there won't be petrol coming through with any pump. Has your car an electric reserve ? If so, turn the switch with the ignition on and otherwise everything quiet. You should hear a definte "K-lick" from the valve when you turn it from "Main" to "Reserve".
The main question is, does the electric pump work a) through the mechanical pump, b) to the mechanical pump or c) as well as the mechanical pump ?
Knowing which of the options is on your car will help with any future problems, especially on the road so it is worth finding out now.
From what you've said, I think I'd start by seeing if the mechanical pump has a hand primer and if so, work it and feel and listen to what is happening. If it goes sort of "oink oink" or "eeh eeh" as you work the handle, then it still has its innnards- valves and diaphragm. The problem is, without extra piping, the mechanical pump can't pump petrol direct from the tank through the electric pump because of its valves. Therefore, the electric pump must work unless a bit of additional pipework has been installed involving non return valves and bypasses.
An electric pump at the rear should be of the "pusher" type, as fitted to MGBs and Stags. It shouldn't be a Morris Minor type which is a puller.
It can be handy to have an electric pump to feed petrol to the mechanical pump and save having to hand prime it (though it's hardly a chore!)or to help with supposed vapourisation. If the electric pump fails to work, so will the mechanical pump. That's the downside (unless it has extra pipework....)
If the mechanical pump has no valves then it can function as a conduit for the petrol to go through and look "original". However, it will have to have an intact diaphragm otherwise the fuel will end up in the sump.
Now, electric pumps are great when new but if yours has been doing little work for a long time, it is likely that the points may need cleaning and this, or sticking valves in the pump,or the condenser in the pump, may need attention. The other possibility (and it took me a while by the side of the road to diagnose this on my 47 12 with an original export model spec including a front mounted electric pump, ) is a poor electrical connection between the power supply lead and the pump. This is easily cured with a bit of cleaning and stainless steel 2BA serrated washers.
From the above, you will be realising why electric pumps can be great but also bring with them their own problems. Mechanical pumps can work exceptionally well if repaired with original quality valves and a diaphragm resistant to modern petrol, also a tight fitting top gasket and top bolt washer for any air leaks here will weaken the suction power of the pump.
What you do with what you've got is your choice but I hope the above will give you some thoughts as to what to look at. I'd suggest you go for an answer that involves fewer components than more and also components you can get to and keep an eye on but that's just my view.
Having said all that, it is worth also remembering the components at either end of the system that can suggest pump problems where there are none , namely the float and needle valve at the carburettor and also the petrol pick up pipe with its reserve tap. If the needle valve is shut and the carburettor is empty then the pump will stop pumping. If the petrol pick up is blocked or the valve doesn't work properly then there won't be petrol coming through with any pump. Has your car an electric reserve ? If so, turn the switch with the ignition on and otherwise everything quiet. You should hear a definte "K-lick" from the valve when you turn it from "Main" to "Reserve".
1934 12 Tourer, 1934 14 SS, 1935 12SS, 1936 12S,1937 10, 1938 20SS,1938 14S, 1939 16S, 1946 14S, 1946 16SS, 1947 12S
Re: sticking brake lights
thanks I've got a lot to consider on what options I have and prefer but aim sure I will get to the bottom of it in a better place than road side than for your reply
Re: Fuel pump/ fuel starvation
Hi Dex,
It really does sound as though you are encountering all the usual old car ailments with your Rover! Take heart though; once you have been through all the servicing, brakes, carburation, electrics and tuning you will have a good reliable classic that you know inside out. Many of us have been there and, compared to a modern car, the fixing costs are relatively low.
My suggestion regarding your fuel delivery woes is to give the car an end to end system refurbishment. The tank needs to be drained and flushed through with clean petrol to remove as much dirt and debris as possible as this will clog filters, pipes, carb jet etc if left unchecked. It’s a good idea is to check that the rubber filler neck pipe is in good order while doing the other tank jobs. The pick up pipe and reserve pipe needs to be removed and the gauze filter cleaned/repaired. The pipe from the tank to the front of the car may also have muck blocking it so it needs cleaning through with an air line or replacing. If replacing, it’s a good idea to run it along the other side of the car’s chassis so it’s away from the heat of the exhaust to help reduce vaporisation. The old mechanical pump is likely to be quite weary, hence the additional electric pump. My preference was to remove and blank off the hole with a suitable plate and gasket, remembering to remove the short push rod that operates it. I think this can be extracted through the pump aperture but it’s been a while! Fit a quality electric pump on near side away from the manifold. I bought a new SU with electronic contacts for each of my 12s and have never had a problem with either. I used puller pumps mounted on the bulkhead, as used with a Morris Minor. Having the pump where it can be accessed is useful should a problem occur or the integral filter needs cleaning. An in-line filter fitted at the bulkhead before the pump is also a good idea. The pipe from the pump to the carb needs to be routed, as far as possible, to keep it away from the manifold heat. For safety, a quality flexible metal braided fuel pipe is a good idea rather than bits of rubber fuel pipe but either must be capable of handling modern petrol. Onto the carburettor; a strip down, clean and recondition makes an old SU so much better and kits are reasonably cheap from Burlen or Southern Carburettors. That lot done and most of your fuel delivery issues should be under control. Sounds like a lot but worth the effort compared to a roadside failure. However, Even after doing all these things, I have still experienced fuel vaporisation in my Saloon when it gets very hot and my Tourer suffers on starting if the petrol in the tank has gone stale but this is due to the poor quality of modern fuel, rather than a fault with either car.
Hope that helps a bit.
Tony.
It really does sound as though you are encountering all the usual old car ailments with your Rover! Take heart though; once you have been through all the servicing, brakes, carburation, electrics and tuning you will have a good reliable classic that you know inside out. Many of us have been there and, compared to a modern car, the fixing costs are relatively low.
My suggestion regarding your fuel delivery woes is to give the car an end to end system refurbishment. The tank needs to be drained and flushed through with clean petrol to remove as much dirt and debris as possible as this will clog filters, pipes, carb jet etc if left unchecked. It’s a good idea is to check that the rubber filler neck pipe is in good order while doing the other tank jobs. The pick up pipe and reserve pipe needs to be removed and the gauze filter cleaned/repaired. The pipe from the tank to the front of the car may also have muck blocking it so it needs cleaning through with an air line or replacing. If replacing, it’s a good idea to run it along the other side of the car’s chassis so it’s away from the heat of the exhaust to help reduce vaporisation. The old mechanical pump is likely to be quite weary, hence the additional electric pump. My preference was to remove and blank off the hole with a suitable plate and gasket, remembering to remove the short push rod that operates it. I think this can be extracted through the pump aperture but it’s been a while! Fit a quality electric pump on near side away from the manifold. I bought a new SU with electronic contacts for each of my 12s and have never had a problem with either. I used puller pumps mounted on the bulkhead, as used with a Morris Minor. Having the pump where it can be accessed is useful should a problem occur or the integral filter needs cleaning. An in-line filter fitted at the bulkhead before the pump is also a good idea. The pipe from the pump to the carb needs to be routed, as far as possible, to keep it away from the manifold heat. For safety, a quality flexible metal braided fuel pipe is a good idea rather than bits of rubber fuel pipe but either must be capable of handling modern petrol. Onto the carburettor; a strip down, clean and recondition makes an old SU so much better and kits are reasonably cheap from Burlen or Southern Carburettors. That lot done and most of your fuel delivery issues should be under control. Sounds like a lot but worth the effort compared to a roadside failure. However, Even after doing all these things, I have still experienced fuel vaporisation in my Saloon when it gets very hot and my Tourer suffers on starting if the petrol in the tank has gone stale but this is due to the poor quality of modern fuel, rather than a fault with either car.
Hope that helps a bit.
Tony.
Tony Gilbert
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport
Re: sticking brake lights
took your advice and renewed all the fuel pipe installing a new filter just after the tank .I disconnected the the original pump and just connected both sides with a loop pipe .I thought I would go for a run just to check the fuel delivery was good .also was the rain coming through the sunroof so my next task is to remove and see what can be done ,
Re: sun roof
Hi Dex,
If your sun roof is like my ‘37 saloon, you will find it has a drain at each corner. The front pipes go down inside the A pillar and exit inside the sill. A dreadful design, much like 1960s Austin 1100s. The result is that the sills rot badly. I extended the rubber pipes on mine so that they exit from the inner side of the sills onto the ground. The rear drain pipes are better and exit at the top of the rear wheel arch and drip down behind the wheel. The problem with all 4 pipes is that they get clogged with dirt washed down over the years from the roof gully and the water has nowhere to go but leak inside the car. So these need to be run through with a wire and/or cleared with an air line. Another issue might be that the gully has rusted through, resulting in leaks through to the head lining. With the roof fully open three sides of the opening can be examined for this problem and accessed to repair if the problem is only minor.
Removing and repairing the roof hatch is, I believe, covered in the workshop manual. However, when I did mine, the job was made easier because the head lining had all been removed so access to the fixings was easy. Whether or not it’s possible to do this without removing the head lining I don’t know because mine was missing. What I do know for certain is that replacing it once the roof was all sorted was a challenging task! Yours might be different in design to mine - I don’t know what year and model your car is? However, should you need to replace yours, I’d be happy to share how I approached it.
Good luck.
Tony.
If your sun roof is like my ‘37 saloon, you will find it has a drain at each corner. The front pipes go down inside the A pillar and exit inside the sill. A dreadful design, much like 1960s Austin 1100s. The result is that the sills rot badly. I extended the rubber pipes on mine so that they exit from the inner side of the sills onto the ground. The rear drain pipes are better and exit at the top of the rear wheel arch and drip down behind the wheel. The problem with all 4 pipes is that they get clogged with dirt washed down over the years from the roof gully and the water has nowhere to go but leak inside the car. So these need to be run through with a wire and/or cleared with an air line. Another issue might be that the gully has rusted through, resulting in leaks through to the head lining. With the roof fully open three sides of the opening can be examined for this problem and accessed to repair if the problem is only minor.
Removing and repairing the roof hatch is, I believe, covered in the workshop manual. However, when I did mine, the job was made easier because the head lining had all been removed so access to the fixings was easy. Whether or not it’s possible to do this without removing the head lining I don’t know because mine was missing. What I do know for certain is that replacing it once the roof was all sorted was a challenging task! Yours might be different in design to mine - I don’t know what year and model your car is? However, should you need to replace yours, I’d be happy to share how I approached it.
Good luck.
Tony.
Tony Gilbert
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport