1936 P1 14 HP Gearbox Removal?

[robby]

Hi, a customer of mine (and member of the owners club) is the proud owner of a beautiful example P1 14HP. However, he`s asked me to remove the gearbox, one to cure a leak and the other because he says there is a clutch issue. Now I`ve had this vehicle on the ramp and given it liberal coats of looking at and have come to the conclusion the box will only come out one of two ways.
The obvious way to me is to remove the front interior and the gearbox cover. However, looking underneath, the bell housing looks about 6 inches too wide to be removed internally.
Option 2 is to remove the engine. Can`t believe that would be the way, so I am reaching out to anyone that can shed any light on which would be the best way of removing a gearbox please
Any help in this matter will be gratefully received by myself and the owner of the vehicle.

Thanks

Rob

[lakesrally]

I have a 1933 14hp in bits at the moment and there might be differences but the gearbox came off from below. Remove the bottom part of the chassis cross-member that supports the rear of the gearbox.

[robby]

That`s what I was hoping, but the rear crossmember is riveted to the chassis, with a huge U=Bolt clamping the box to it.While it`s certainly possible that I`ve missed something, I couldn`t see anyway of removing the crossmember or any part of it. Would be nice if I was wrong though

Rob

[lakesrally]

It is possible that the cross-member is different, I'm no expert. I'll see if I can take a couple of photos.

[robby]

That would be great, thankyou. I`m not starting the job till Tuesday, so no rush. I`m no expert on Pre-War cars having only played about with a couple of Austins (10 & 12) most of my work involves 50's-60's motors, but the owner has said that this model of P1 was only made for a short period of time (10 months seems to ring a bell) so as you say, may have used a different crossmember

[lakesrally]

Sorry Robbie, I've just had a look at the 1934 parts list and your chassis cross-member is totally different to mine. I've been told that to get the gearbox out you need to remove the radiator and lift the front of the engine but hopefully someone who knows more than me will help you out.

[47p2]

Might be worth giving Mike Couldry or Mike Evans a call to see if they could advise

[luli]

Acording to the RSR workshop manual Rover 14 1936 is a P2 Rover. This is what the manual says about gearbox removal of Rover P2:

“GEARBOX - TO REMOVE AND REPLACE
This operation is necessary if either gearbox or clutch needs attention and the preliminaries apply where external attention is required.
Detailed instructions are not included as the operation varies with the model, year and type of body. The basic details apply to all as the gearbox is removed inside the car.
1. Remove front seats, all carpets and gearbox cover.
2. Remove front floor boards, brake and clutch pedals and toeboard.
3. Disconnect clutch linkage, propshaft, speedometer cable, freewheel cable, reverse light wires
and any other connections (e.g. earth strap, stabiliser rod etc.).
4. Remove gear lever and disconnect support bracket (top half on 1947-49 cars). Disconnect check
strap (1934-46).
The next operation involves jacking up under the flywheel housing to lift the gearbox free of the mounting and high enough to clear the floor. To achieve this it may be necessary to remove other items such as the handbrake or floor board support channels depending on the model.
Before jacking up various items may need to be disconnected around the engine. Normally these are the exhaust, top radiator hose, throttle/choke linkage, air cleaner, heater hoses etc etc. When jacking up, keep a check on the engine in case something has not been disconnected or is fouling. Make sure the fan blades do not touch the radiator core. Having jacked up the gearbox:
5. Remove the ring of nuts around the bell housing leaving one near the top.
6. Support the gearbox whilst removing the last nut, and remove the box taking care not to let the
box hang on the clutch splines.
Replacement of the gearbox is basically a reversal of these operations. If the clutch has been removed (which is a wise move), ensure that the plate has been centred using a dummy shaft or old constant mesh pinion. Coat the splines lightly with white grease (sometimes called "backing plate" or "expander" lubricant]. Take care not to allow the gearbox to hang on the clutch splines, alignment of which may be eased if the gearbox is in gear. Do not forget to fill the gearbox with oil, allowing time for oil to work through to the freewheel.”
I had done this operation on Rover 10s (1946-7) (too) many times. For the bell housing to get out it is necessary to remove the lower part of the fire wall. Use two jacks - one to support the engine and the other (on wheels) to support the gearbox – so that the gearbox is not hanging on the clutch housing studs or the clutch itself. Otherwise it is very difficult to pull it out.
See also here: http://lulisml.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/clutch-woes-6/
You can also see here a picture of the car without the front floor and lower fire wall – the gearbox is exposed and available for removal:
http://lulisml.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/lifnei.jpg

[robby]

Many thanks for the replies, been a great help

luli - That`s fantastic, thankyou for the information, I wasn`t sure if the toe boards came out which is good because I can now see where the extra width for the bell housing to come out can be gained. Was really beginning to fear it was going to be an engine out job.
By the way, what sort of time do you reckon it takes to get the box out roughly, a day, half a day? It`s not that important, but I wouldn`t mind knowing so at least I can give him some idea of costs and how long in may be on the ramp for.

Thanks again, you guys are great

Rob

[P3Steve]

I know mines a P3 and not a P2 but my gear box came out the same way through the inside, I did mine in a weekend with out a ramp or pit on my drive at home on my own with just my wife and sister in law to help lift it in and out which was rather amusing as we passed a length of timber through both front doors and suspended the gear box from it rather like you see game being carried in the old safari films. The wife and sister in law were at either end of the wood beam while I sat on the floor between where the front seats would be and guided it in and out. I think on the engine I released the exhaust at the front flange and undid the throttle linkage but other than that all I did was support the rear of the engine on a trolly jack. With the front seats, floor and toe boards out you can reach almost every nut and bolt from inside the car, I actually found the whole job easier than some modern front wheel drive I've done. Regards Steve